BEAM ON THE SQUARE

Liquidiser has set this group up for local people to have their say on the Underscan video art event on Northampton's market square.
What do you think of the Under Scan project?
Love it? Loathe It?
Are you a town centre trader?
Are you an artist?
A brilliant initiative or Nottingham knowing whats best for Northampton again?
What do the arts in Northanpton really need?
Post your views here!
This group will close down on March 31st

< back

From: "kings_heathra"
Date: Fri Feb 3, 2006 11:51pm
Subject: Underscan Project
 
We think this is a waste of taxpayers' money. Considering the cuts in
hospital beds; the withdrawal of funding from Youth Services; the long
waiting-list of homeless people; and the withdrawal of funds from the
Roadmender Club, we consider the Underscan project a waste of valuable
government resources. It also has about it the taint of a high-class
arty confidence trick pulled on the East Midlands Development Agency,
who evidently have money to burn. Rather like the Emporer's new
clothes. It has cost £150,000 for Northampton alone. The whole project
is costing £750,000. This money could have been spent on many things
much more worthwhile that actually helped people.

From: "milligansghost"
Date: Sat Feb 4, 2006 10:39am
Subject: beamonthesquare waste of money
 
What a total waste of tax payers hard earned money,
All that time and money to install a high tech toy for the benifit of
a few drinkers in the town center, watching the broadcast on the local
news i saw someone behind the Frontman swigging from a can of lager
and making a fool of himself, a sign of things to come in the next ten days i think ..
Bring back the Roadmender at least that was worth something

From: "james0smith"
Date: Sun Feb 5, 2006 0:35pm
Subject: the new society
 
would it have cost 125k if it covered the whole of the market sq?
technologically brilliant, but the largest .... ?
will there be a call for entries for 'art' in public spaces after this?
better in milton keynes?

From: "ianbridgford"
Date: Sun Feb 5, 2006 3:17pm
Subject: Re: Underscan Project
 
Dear group,
an interesting endeavour but, as expected, a haven for those with
nothing better to do than criticise.
Underscan: a waste of whose money? EMDA isn't directly financed by the
taxpayers of Northampton so I'm not sure how, as one contributor seems
to infer, the Underscan project can be directly related to the poor
management of services across the County.
As far as i'm aware EMDA receives funding from government and from the
EU. Underscan is a project that's travelling between five cities in
the region. Is the previous author proposing that we ask EMDA to
donate the monies spent on Underscan in Northampton (perhaps taxpayers
money from the North East, the South West or France or Belgium...) to
underpin other provision in Northamptonshire?
Roadmender, for better of for worse, wasn't able to function and
survive within its budget. So why propose 'wasting' money on that
bottomless pit and not on another form of cultural activity within the
town that might benefit those who don't want to see bands play? Or is
it that only certain types of cultural activity are allowed to take place?
I'm not sure what's meant by one email referring to Underscan as an
'arty confidence trick'. Is the author of that email suggesting that
the artist responsible for Underscan is in some way insincere, or is
perhaps not honest in some way? Perhaps that author might want to
explain exactly what they mean by this, since those words could be
misinterpreted and might even cause offence to the artist.
Further, perhaps those with a less-than-positive response to Underscan
would like to add some detail to their criticisms of the project and
clarify some of their rather vague mudslinging we might be able to
have something approaching a mature and informed debate. Instead this
whole thing is reduced to a generalised and tabloid-infused level of
faux-ignorance.
If attempts to place cultural events / activities within Northampton -
a town with aspirations for city status and on the edge of massive
expansion and development in the next twenty years - is regarded as
not being worthwhile and not of any help to people then we might as
well pack up now.
Would the residents of Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle, Glasgow
(among others) regard the benefits that each of their cities has
received, due to exactly this type of cultural activity, as not being
in some way worthwhile to their respective cities?
Or do we abolish culture (or the public funding of culture) until all
of society's other problems are solved? Maybe only within
Northamptonshire? If that were to be the case then we might be waiting
some time...
Regards
Ian

From: "mikelowe35"
Date: Sun Feb 5, 2006 6:51pm
Subject: underscan Art Project  
What I cant stand not just about Underscan is why I have to deal with
the hassle of art and other hawkers when Im walking in Northampton. If
Its not AA or Friends of the Earth selling to me in Abington Street or
SKY television or something now Its Artists interrupting me walking to
work or out with mates. Why cant I just walk down the street? Didnt
public space use to be public?

From: "coppercopernicus"
Date: Mon Feb 6, 2006 7:48am
Subject: Underscan
 
Waste of money? I guess people who think that will be so utilitarian
that they would say all all is ultimately a waste of money. If we
listened to them that we would have all the quicker the bland city
centres that are emerging.
I would be happy to see a percentage of my Tax go on public art of
whatever type, my experience of this project and the talk given by the
artist at the launch was very positive.

From: "coppercopernicus"
Date: Mon Feb 6, 2006 7:50am
Subject: All art
 
that last message should read all art

From: "liquidiser_dick" <stuff@...>
Date: Mon Feb 6, 2006 10:45pm
Subject: UNDERSCAN
 
I think it the best traditions of the town that reasons t omoan
should be available on a regular basis. If Underscan was in Milton
Keynes and not Northampton we would moan. If everywhere else in the
east midlands had it and we didn't we would moan.
As we've got it we can really moan.. or not.....
The question is - will it make a difference, what will it change or
impact on.
This project is in a long tradition of regional bodies or local
councils going for the high profile splash and ignoring the day to day
grind that really makes the difference. Its because the grind does not
get the hype and the easy publicity.
Highlighted this time is the contrast between Northampton Arts
Collective running a cafe throughout and featuring a range of local
arts endeavours and doing so on no money. A sliver of the Underscan
cash would have allowed them to market it and have a much higher
profile. But who are NAC to EMDA or their consultants, Arts Reach?
If these two organisations really wanted to address regeneration and be
artistically challenging why was this project not taken to one of
Northampton's more deprived estates? There would be room for it at
Kings Heath, Thorplands, or even just move it half a mile to one of the
most deprived areas in the country -Spring Boroughs.
But then who from EMDA and Arts Reach would leave their comfort zones
for such an enterprise?

From: Paul Wilson
Date: Mon Feb 6, 2006 10:57pm
Subject: Re: UNDERSCAN  
>
erm, so where does it say they 'really want to address regeneration'?
From the emda website:
'East Midlands Development Agency (emda) is one of nine Regional
Development Agencies in England set up in 1999 to bring a regional
focus to economic development.'
why does deprived = artistically challenging? who's gaining from the
current location of Underscan? who would gain if it were moved? would
this help emda's aim for economic development? would the residents
benefit? we've already heard from one resident(s) and they didn't seem
keen to have it on their doorstep, literally or metaphorically...>
> If these two organisations really wanted to address regeneration and be
> artistically challenging why was this project not taken to one of
> Northampton's more deprived estates? There would be room for it at
> Kings Heath, Thorplands, or even just move it half a mile to one of the
> most deprived areas in the country -Spring Boroughs.
> But then who from EMDA and Arts Reach would leave their comfort zones
> for such an enterprise?

From: "richard"
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2006 6:55am
Subject: Re: UNDERSCAN
 
From EMDA Website- Urban regeneration – we're promoting an urban renaissance to inspire you, investors and your business
Clearly they don't want to inspire the wine and canapes crew with Spring Boroughs or Kings Heath

From: "coppercopernicus"
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2006 9:57am
Subject: Art & Regeneration
 
I don't agree that regeneration should be a rationale for Art, it
might be a secondary consequence but Art that starts with such notions
is destined to be a sterile addition to other forms of state
intervention.
Personally I think areas that get regenerated by local agency
intervention become like theme parks, and the locals become like some
out of place reminder of the'sad'past. They soon all move out selling
the now prime real estate to the new inhabitants of 'Disneyland
Docklands'.
Much better if locals develop managable solutions that grow areas and
develop capacity at a community level.
Underscan seems to me to be about interaction with each other within
the context of a common area, so a town square is an important feature
of that so it won't work in Spring Boroughs of Spencer because most
people (locals included) don't walk about after dark.

From: "coppercopernicus"
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006 8:03pm
Subject: Dull Northamptonshire?
 
Why is it that putting a ---king huge projector in the centre of
Northampton elicits such a poor response, are we really the middle
Englanders people think we are. Too apathethic to show any passion or
interest in any thing other than house prices or where Ikea decide to
build their next store.

From: Paul Wilson
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006 8:09pm
Subject: Re: Dull Northamptonshire?
 
dead on. can't believe no-one's bothered to really get emotional /
excited / anything about it. other than the usual moans, groans,
misunderstandings.
ah well. can't say we didn't try.
last one out. light switch. etc.

From: "coppercopernicus"
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006 11:34pm
Subject: Dull
Maybe if George Galloway appeared in a pink leotard licking imaginary milk out of Saddam Hussains Beret, or Pete Docherty was seen snorting coke off Kate Mosses tummy in the Market Square, people would be inspired to comment??????

From: "albertsmith_52"
Date: Fri Feb 10, 2006 0:13am
Subject: Views of a working bloke
 
I went to see this UnderScan thing last Saturday evening. I was quite
disappointed in the fiddly little pictures on the floor, which kept
going through their mini-video sequence when approached. Not
interactive at all, just like tripping a switch. I found it totally
underwhelming. All this huge mass of projection equipment to produce
something so banal.
All around, kids waited for the show to start. It gradually dawned on
them - and me - that this was all there was. A few seconds of
mini-movie sequences of different figures. Some people tried to
interact with them, signalling with an arm or leg, but the only
response was the little three-second movies repeating themselves, time
and time again. Call this Art? They must be joking! What a con!
I left after about 15 minutes, it was that boring. My missus stayed on
for half an hour, waiting for something else to start. But it never
did, except for a brief flicker of grid-patterns on the floor which
went as quickly as they came. Then back to the mediocre little movies.
So we went home. I don't know quite what we expected, but it were a
lot more than what we found.
I can understand some people posting here about a terrible waste of
public money. A bystander told me this Rafael guy personally gets paid
£35,000 for each city or town which holds this show. That's five
altogether, making it £175,000 for his little winter season, a very
nice wedge. This guy's an artist all right, but quite a different kind
from those who paint pictures or make statues. They say the shows cost
£150,000 each, which is at least £750,000 in all, which leaves quite a
lot of EMDA and Arts Council lolly for his hangers-on.
It must have cost our council between £5,000 and £10,000 to pay for
all those market stalls to be bought or hired, and took down every
night and put up every morning, and the daily rigging of their
electric. And while we're on electric, who's paying the project's
electricity bills? The big burner had its own generator, but what
about the others? Yes, I'd have to agree it's a terrible waste of
public money, wherever and whoever the money came from.
To be fair, I don't suppose the council committee who gave the ok to
this 'event' ever figured it could be as bad as this. They probably
imagined something a bit more spectacular, with crowds flooding in to
watch. Well, a mate of mine went down on Sunday night, around 9 pm,
and there wasn't a soul about. The lights were on, the little pictures
were there, but there was no one to see them. It were like Aberdeen on
a flag day. I suppose word had already got about by then. Another mate
from Leicester said it was a flop over there as well, not many came to
see it. Not surprising, really.
Since Saturday night I've not heard a good word spoken about this
'event' by anyone, apart from a few arty-farty types posting on this
site, trying to justify pseudo-art as Art. In the presence of real Art
you feel a sense of rightness, even a sense of reverence, because you
are instinctively aware that someone has put their very heart and soul
into it. All I got from this light show was a sense of contempt, a
feeling that someone was trying to gull the public into accepting it
as art, and a feeling of anger that this sort of thing is allowed to
go on, funded by huge amounts of public money, while many have no
homes to live in. There, Albert's had his rant, print it if you dare.

From: "Barry Hale"
Date: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:12am
Subject: not in my back yard northampton strikes again
 
You know, in every other town and city from Mexico to Japan via Derby this
installation is HUGE. The artist wanted to put the big projector on the
solicitor's building at bottom end of the market and wanted the ring of
video projectors on the rooves of buildings around the square so there
wouldn't be the aluminium henge littering up the place and you wouldn't see
the workings. No one would let him
The equipment is capable of filling the entire market square THE ENTIRE
SQUARE!!!!!! but northampton once again gets all moody and gives the bloke
four foot six. Consequently, some of the electronic tracking gizmo's don't
work to their full potential cos they're designed to work over a
FANTASTICALLY HUGE area. It's like ordering a jumbo jet and moaning that it
can't take off from abington street - how can you tell if it's a waste of
money when you haven't really seen it. Is it a waste of money? Well, you
and I pay for a hell of a lot of other things that we should talk seriously
about before we get around to raising this on the waste of money agenda.
By the way, weren't the stalls on the market square designed at huge expense
so that they could be removed for cultural events? Wasn't that the point of
the market's refurbishment twenty years ago? Hell, let's just invest all
our cash in hanging on to a 20 year old stick of obsolete concrete that
litters up the views from every part of town and keep all those nasty artist
types out of our precious little backwater. No wonder everything is going
down the tubes when no one can ever be bothered to say something positive
about anything. If you don't like it, fine, organise an alternative.
There's plenty more taxpayers money to waste on making the place less of the
cultural desert its becoming.
B

From: "coppercopernicus" <coppercopernicus@...>
Date: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:33pm
Subject: Small minded coppercopern...
 
So given the option of a really grand project for the same price the
local great and good decide to try sqeeze the whole thing into a shoe
box. So whose wasting money?
We are seeing a sampler, like a small view of what it could have been.
When the artist saw the square he must have been excited, the enclosed
feel, high buildings all around, entrance and exit routes at all 4
corners. But the really brave people in power in our town put other
interests before making the statement that in the long run would have
attracted many more people to the town centre.
Watch out for 4 ins of the left hand corner of Monets Water Lilies at
Northampton Art Gallery, yes we do have one!!!

From: "coppercopernicus"
Date: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:44pm
Subject: Albert Smith 52
 
Good on you Albert Smith 52, at least you went to see it and have a
view.

From: "marianbeachcomber"
Date: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:06pm
Subject: Great disappointment
 
My main reaction to this project was disappointment - is this all
there is? I asked when it was starting, under the impression it was
just testing and warming up, and was told it has already been fully
turned on for ten minutes.
I was depressed by the dullness of the whole experience - like
watching someone's home video.
Can I have my share of the taxpayers money back, please?

From: "richard"
Date: Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:17am
Subject: Re: Great disappointment
 
Yeah, it doesn't work, the videos just come up at random.
As the white paint has faded they can only be seen well when the beam is off
The bit that causes the most excitement is when the grids come on and the
kids start chasing them.
Barry Hale's post tells us why, the thing is ten times smaller than it
should be.
Another Northampton compromise!

From: "liquidiser_dick"
Date: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:16am
Subject: its in a long tradition..unfortunately.
 
Barry Hale's post tells us we have a compromise and a bad one at
that.
Outsiders tell us 'this will do for Northampton' and we say ' thank
you very much ,sir'
In my memmory
The Church Commissioners (outsiders)wanted to destroy the Mackintosh
house in Derngate to expand the adjacent Derngate School. It was
only a strong response from Tom Osborne Robinson and The Civic
Society that stopped it from happening. Around the late sixties.
Arts funding collapsed for the county when our county council
withdrew its input to the Arts Council following the Arts Council
(outsiders)squandering a huge amount of money on 'what we have'. A
dance company and a theatre company were closed down to pay for it
plus arts funding, which in 1981 was considerbly less than it is
now, was put through the wringer form several years.
Only a campaign by local arts groups and individuals restored the
relationship between county council and the arts council
We then take culpability. Derngate was completed in 1984 to an
election date. It was neither small enough to do anything mildly
risky nor big enough to get the 'names' and be of regional
significance. The only time it was full was for 60s nights (70s
nights were still new then). Only the coming of Chicago Rocks
forced a change
Next up Trade Unions and the Arts. A great idea over a few beers in
Nottingam (outsiders), making work here was a bastard
Northampton Arts Centre was part of Northampton College of Further
Education throughout the 80s and early 90s. A plaything of this
behemoth, despite the sterling efforts of its staff.
Then there's Roadmender open/close/open/close.... It became apparent
early on that there should have been a new build, but the lottery
funders (outsiders) new best..
I could go on, thank you for getting this far..
To finish up, back to Osborne Robinson. As the Royal Theatre is
redeveloped much of his work will be lost. After all if you're on
the derngate management group (outsiders) what will look best on
your cv, restored a nineteenth century theatre to its victorian
splendour or preserved the works of Osborne Robinson. Interstingly a
full circle. The chair of trustees for 78 Derngate was vociferous in
defending the Robinson art in the theatre
Its time for local people to take control!

From: "errafael1"
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:09pm
Subject: Greetings from Lozano-Hemmer
 
Thank you all for spending your time and energy in this forum. I have been
reading people's posts --as I was invited to do by the liquidiser on the opening event-- and appreciate the feedback on my piece. Here are some notes that might clarify certain issues raised here:
1. The piece is called the "largest" because it can cover an area of 2,000
square metres. The previous largest interactive projection piece that I am aware of was "Body Movies" in Rotterdam, cultural capital of Europe 2001, here is the documentation: http://lozano-hemmer.com/video/bodymovies.html
It is true that in Northampton we had to settle for a much smaller size, only covering 900 square metres, as a result of negotiations with the town and with the market vendors.
Everyone, including me, felt that it was important for the market vendors to feel like they were not being completely displaced.
2. I think that the project was unfortunately promoted in a way that created expectations of a grand spectacle. Some people expected a show, perhaps thinking about fireworks, a concert or a giant "son et lumiere" intervention. Yes, it is true that we use the world's brightest projector, but in fact what I was aiming at was to create a more intimate experience, a platform for people to represent themselves and then for passers-by to relate to that. My experience in Northampton was extremely positive in this
regard: people we interviewed for the documentary seemed quite engaged with the project, and they understood that this kind of project is not a passive show but an installation where the public is an integral part of the piece. For the future presentations of this project I will insist on not promoting it as a "show".
3. My fee for the entire project was 25,000 pounds...far from the 175,000 pounds that someone mentioned. That fee covered the development and presentation of the work but also the five workshops that I have been conducting with artists from the region, a masterclass which will take place in Nottingham, and 5 public lectures in the region. By the way, an amusing fact that I learnt from a concert promoter in England: it costs
a city 150,000 pounds to stage a 1 1/2 hour show by the boy band Macfly. I'm happy they didn't go for that! (though my daughter might disagree).
4. While the discussion on the cost of the project within Northampton is very important, I would like to add that the piece is designed so that in the future it can tour to different festivals and museums around the world. I trust that this will extend the international impact of the piece so that the region may benefit from having produced it. Also, as you consider the cost of the project, please keep in mind that all the gear is owned by the
region as a capital investment and that the kit will actually be distributed among local artist institutions.
5. I am personally extremely proud to have worked in Northampton. The best part of doing this project has been working with the local people...even if it sounds like a platitude. The staging company for the piece is from Northampton and they are totally world-class, the local filmmakers and participants were a delight to work with, even the market vendors
ended up getting their portrait taken (I will never forget the vendor who was offering "light-show" specials :-). I also learnt that one of my heroes, Alan Moore, lives there...how cool is that?! I hope that Under Scan can help as a catalyst for discussions like this one that the liquidiser has set-up. (I read that this group will close down on March 31st so I will continue monitoring it until then, but after if anyone wants to give me feedback directly --good or bad-- you can reach me at errafael1@...)
All the best,
Rafael

From: "liquidiser_dick"
Date: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:01pm
Subject: thanks and .......?
 
Thanks, Rafael, for taking the time to follow this group and post to it.
Where are you EMDA? The consultants?

From: "midgleychristine"
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:21am
Subject: underscan
 
Wonderful, but too small.
And I never cease to be amazed at the strength of peoples rage at art they don't like. Music they don't like? Switch it off. Books they can't understand? Put them back on the shelf.
Theatre which is challenging? Complain but don't go and see it. It has to mean something that art provokes the reations it does. Better to love or hate than to ignore, perhaps?